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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

it's ok, i don't think we're gonna see eye to eye and i don't really feel like hashing it out any further, sorry

Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

...or to be harsh or deny people benefit of the doubt. and frankly i will always support a bitch being the Mean Feminist in the room. i was even fairly disappointed with gooseworx's response to the situation ur referencing! it was too "both sides"-y for my taste

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

funny enough i've seen multiple posts elaborating on how if she *wasn't* intended to be read as experiencing transphobia, then the writing was bad! i know we're just not gonna see eye to eye on this, but ultimately i think transfems in fandom spaces have been given *every* reason to lack patience...

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Reposted by Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️

Nova, but spooky @diceynova.bsky.social · 9d

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Dinoberry Press @dinoberrypress.bsky.social · 9d

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

...from the beginning when things look off is necessary if we ever wanna live in a world where we can actually *expect* to be included. like, even if a full season does include representation, who's to say if the writers wouldve thought to do that if it weren't for this strong response to the pilot?

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

i think it's important for these discussions to be had, even if it feels like people are judging something too early. i think the point of a pilot is to be judged, and i don't think it's the fault of transfeminist critique if the conversation feels like it's gone toxic. i think a strong reaction...

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

i think different people are just going to have different tolerances for tme nonsense, and different amounts of grace or goodwill to extend to tme creatives. for me personally, if it weren't for the blocking of disappointed transfems on the initial post, i'd have a little more grace in this case

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

...creator of Homestuck is the lead writer on the animated pilot, i think its fair to have much higher hopes for it than anything headed up by cis folks

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

i know transfem leads doesn't necessarily mean good transfem rep, but i'd still rather support irl transfem creatives since the tmes aren't giving us rep either. but also like, fwiw, the *main character* of homestuck is undergoing a transition arc in the sequel series and considering the transfem...

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

i don't think wanting KOG to get picked up for a series makes someone a bad person or anything, but i think the criticisms are legitimate and also, unfortunately, the disproportionate backlash to said criticisms has already made the fandom a transmisogynistic cesspit, so i'm inclined to write it off

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

...an effort to include us instead of begging for scraps from someone who has never shown an inclination to

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

like why should we default to giving the show any kind of benefit of the doubt when the demonstrable default is that we will be disappointed? i'd rather give my attention, time, and money to transfem-led projects like TADC or the Homestuck pilot, or at least tme-led projects that proactively show...

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

given said handling, her past projects, and the overall landscape, i don't think there's any reason to expect something different if the show gets picked up from the pilot. like sorry, but a pilot is for selling the show, and i'm just not sold on it considering everything discussed above

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

"i don't think we need another cartoon from a tme cis queer who doesn't make an effort to include us" that's why i say this isn't the type of transmisogyny anyone influential would ever care about, if they care about transmisogyny at all. 13/13

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

and isn't even a notably bad transmisogynist, but she clearly has unexamined biases in that area, as all people who don't make an effort to deconstruct such things do. she's part of a larger pattern of the animation industry not giving any kind of a fuck about us, and that's enough for me to say 12/

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

to play male villains, it was rightly pointed out that the only tma VAs who are well known with successful careers are specifically the ones who are okay with playing male villains. and it's still a bad look to have no other transfems on ur cast either way. so in summation, terrace isn't unique 11/

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

additional discussion sprung up over the fact that the only out transfem involved in the production of KOG in any way is the VA who voices the cis male character who was the one threatening and deadnaming Frankie. while no one thinks it's transmisogynistic in and of itself to cast tma VAs 10/

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

generally get to make cartoons. it was also pointed out, as a point of contrast, that Hunter from TOH is very popularly headcanoned in fandom spaces as transmasc, but terrace has of course never gone out of her way to post "no he's cis" cuz that's kind of just a lowkey transphobic thing to do? 9/

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

been unable to have actual transfem representation because of its publisher, KOG is not a kids show and not on a kids network, so it's disappointing that even when we're *allowed* to be represented in the first place, our experiences are clearly not top of mind for the types of people who 8/

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

transmisogynistic jokes and caricatures alongside genuine representation for other types of queer folks. people pointed to dana terrace's own show The Owl House as an example of this trend of "queer cartoons"really meaning tme queer cartoons. some people raised the point that while TOH may have 7/

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

transfems in the writer's room. further discussion pointed to the way this is a recurring issue in "queer" cartoons. you can run down the list of most popular queer cartoons from the last few decades and they all feature almost entirely tme representation, often even including outright hostile 6/

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

this was people pointing out that to have included in the pilot a scene where a char SO obviously suffers violent transmisogynistic harassment in the workplace, but to have this NOT be the actual intended reading, simply reveals a clear blindspot in worldview. certainly it shows there were no 5/

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

while she later, in the wake of backlash, posted a followup that essentially apologized for making it seem like she wasn't okay with transfem headcanons (not exactly what was being criticized, but sure) she didn't unblock any of these accounts, last i heard. another layer of the discussion around 4/

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

then, it came to light that she had blocked 5 or 6 transfems who expressed polite disappointment with the "deconfirming" skeet (this can be verified because bsky's api allows you to view blocked replies on posts thru outside tools) while not blocking any of the transphobes celebrating the skeet 3/

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Clove! 🏳️‍⚧️ @twelvepointbaeddel.bsky.social · 9d

disappointed with was how much more clearly she "deconfirmed" a tma reading of her character as compared to both the way she had left open to interpretation questions about other queer readings of her characters, and how other cartoonists in the past have responded to tma readings of their chars 2/

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