I can agree with that — our disagreement is about how much weight on one side of that tension vs the other.

I think mainstream political discourse puts way too much weight on the "realism about limits of persuasion" side. It's comfortable because no need to take an actual position — just strategy.

and if you don't sincerely support xyz, that's fine! but then, too, have the courage of your convictions, and admit you don't support it.

"electability" just feels like a copout to avoid arguing on the merits. It feels toxic and condescending. I want us to believe in good faith persuasion.

the voter who says "well *I* support xyz, but I'm worried the general electorate won't, so I won't actually vote for xyz, because I'm afraid xyz will lose" is contributing to the continued electoral failure of xyz, and I question their sincere support for xyz.

have the courage of your convictions!

And re GOP — of course I as a Trump critic would love to be like "yeah all those wacky Trumpy candidates were the wrong choice, GOP primary voters should have been smarter and picked less Trumpy candidates"

... but that's because I think GOP primary voters should be less Trumpy in the first place!

I don't deny that it's a valid concept in theory. In practice, I think everyone is massively overconfident in their ability to tell who's electable and who's not. Not to mention misogyny, racism, other subconscious biases that get a boost from "well it's what my neighbors think, not what I think."

Maybe. 2022 was a purplish year overall, because of Dobbs, etc. I'm not so sure how much of any GOP senate loss comes down to primary choice, and we can never run these counterfactual experiments.

But even granting that, so what? I wouldn't vote against my values, and neither should they.

In a general election, or a 2nd round of a 2-round system, you often have to vote strategically. It's your last chance to influence the outcome, you don't need to love the candidate you vote for.

So when can you vote with your heart, your values?

Primaries! (Or 1st rounds of 2-round systems)

Oh yep, this is the one that was D+14 overall. So that tracks. Wow.

Alright, more of this. A nation truly on the road to recovering its sanity would be even stronger than D+14 next year.

Competitive, publicized, energetic Dem primaries in as many seats as possible will HELP with this btw.

maybe instead of polls we could just talk to The People

hey, we could even talk to a lot of people and try to make sure that the people we talk to are reflective in many ways of society as a whole, and not just the loudest voices in the room

wait

The key insight I feel is that incumbents *can win* their primaries! If Biden was worthy of the 2024 nomination, he would have won it in a serious challenge. (It seems extremely likely, in retrospect, that he would have lost to any serious challenger). The point is, primary voters must decide.

So how could we have stopped this disaster?

Yes, (1) BIDEN SHOULD NOT HAVE RUN FOR REELECTION.

But that's not really good enough! He did run! So was it right for we the people (me very much included) to just accept that as fait accompli? No!

So (2) INCUMBENTS CAN AND SHOULD BE PRIMARIED.

In 2023, a common sentiment was "why is the Democratic party not having a competitive primary, just letting Biden run without any serious challengers?"

This annoyed me at the time, because again, incumbents are NORMALLY insulated from primary challenges! It wasn't unusual that Biden was, too.

if you genuinely *prefer the incumbent over their challenger*, that's fine and you can say that! endorse the incumbent, taking a position in the primary! totally fine. but "we shouldn't HAVE a primary" should be offensive to anyone who supports democracy and wants a healthy party.

ok rant over.

it rubs me the wrong way, but it's also idiotic & shortsighted. Mamdani and Jeffries don't get to decide whether we "engage in that kind of primary!" Guess what, we are!

The lesson of 2024 is that it is NEVER okay to tell people to sit down, shut up, and not challenge incumbents in primaries.

I will say though.

"It's not the time to engage in that kind of primary"

DOES rub me the wrong way. "engage in that kind of" like it's some kind of offensive criminal undertaking. It is ALWAYS the right time to have competitive primaries. Always. Mamdani and AOC, of all people, should know that!

This would rub me the wrong way if Mamdani was explicitly endorsing Jeffries over Ossé, but that's not what he said. So it's fine. He's doing the politically expedient thing by declining to offer an optional opinion when his honest opinion would make an inconvenient enemy. I forgive him.