Ed K
@edk.bsky.social
Black Lives Matter! Math, software, science, politics, education, 日本語。(((He/They)))
This isn't collusion, this is politics and coalition building. TBH as a voter, I'd prefer politicians who understand voting. (Re-reading the table -- Klobuchar (who was my first choice) had dropped out by Super Tuesday.)
Anyway, my point remains: most of us preferred someone other than Sanders.
Anyway, my point remains: most of us preferred someone other than Sanders.
December 5, 2025 at 2:39 AM
This isn't collusion, this is politics and coalition building. TBH as a voter, I'd prefer politicians who understand voting. (Re-reading the table -- Klobuchar (who was my first choice) had dropped out by Super Tuesday.)
Anyway, my point remains: most of us preferred someone other than Sanders.
Anyway, my point remains: most of us preferred someone other than Sanders.
Given the long history of demagogues -- Trump is another in that line. Saying that he'd be easy to beat by any credible assumes that elections are basically debates ... and they're not.
(I thought of them as debates, and have come to understand the error of my ways.)
(I thought of them as debates, and have come to understand the error of my ways.)
December 5, 2025 at 2:19 AM
Given the long history of demagogues -- Trump is another in that line. Saying that he'd be easy to beat by any credible assumes that elections are basically debates ... and they're not.
(I thought of them as debates, and have come to understand the error of my ways.)
(I thought of them as debates, and have come to understand the error of my ways.)
Sanders had a chance to win the Democratic primaries; but he didn't demonstrate the strength you claim.
Most of us (Democratic primary voters) wanted someone else.
Trump is an entertainer/conman; his schtick doesn't work for me and probably not for you, but it obviously works for many Americans.
Most of us (Democratic primary voters) wanted someone else.
Trump is an entertainer/conman; his schtick doesn't work for me and probably not for you, but it obviously works for many Americans.
December 5, 2025 at 2:18 AM
Sanders had a chance to win the Democratic primaries; but he didn't demonstrate the strength you claim.
Most of us (Democratic primary voters) wanted someone else.
Trump is an entertainer/conman; his schtick doesn't work for me and probably not for you, but it obviously works for many Americans.
Most of us (Democratic primary voters) wanted someone else.
Trump is an entertainer/conman; his schtick doesn't work for me and probably not for you, but it obviously works for many Americans.
Ah, I see -- Biden was beating Sanders 53:47 in a 1-on-1 match at that point *if* you ignore all the primary voters who voted for someone else. Sanders had 30.3% of the overall vote at that time.
I was one of the people who voted for another candidate, *and* was happy with Biden as nominee.
I was one of the people who voted for another candidate, *and* was happy with Biden as nominee.
December 4, 2025 at 9:19 PM
Ah, I see -- Biden was beating Sanders 53:47 in a 1-on-1 match at that point *if* you ignore all the primary voters who voted for someone else. Sanders had 30.3% of the overall vote at that time.
I was one of the people who voted for another candidate, *and* was happy with Biden as nominee.
I was one of the people who voted for another candidate, *and* was happy with Biden as nominee.
It is not collusion to decide that you have no chance of winning, and to step out so someone you prefer has a better chance.
Politics isn't a game.
The fact that you say Democratic centrists are the biggest problem (rather than racist reactionaries!) tells me all I need to know about you.
Politics isn't a game.
The fact that you say Democratic centrists are the biggest problem (rather than racist reactionaries!) tells me all I need to know about you.
December 4, 2025 at 9:05 PM
It is not collusion to decide that you have no chance of winning, and to step out so someone you prefer has a better chance.
Politics isn't a game.
The fact that you say Democratic centrists are the biggest problem (rather than racist reactionaries!) tells me all I need to know about you.
Politics isn't a game.
The fact that you say Democratic centrists are the biggest problem (rather than racist reactionaries!) tells me all I need to know about you.
You're talking delegates, and I'm talking about voters. The majority of Democratic primary voters preferred someone else.
We can see the vote totals. As of Super Tuesday, the only place he had a majority was his own state, and the 2nd place was NV with 40.5%. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_De...
We can see the vote totals. As of Super Tuesday, the only place he had a majority was his own state, and the 2nd place was NV with 40.5%. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_De...
2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
December 4, 2025 at 7:34 PM
You're talking delegates, and I'm talking about voters. The majority of Democratic primary voters preferred someone else.
We can see the vote totals. As of Super Tuesday, the only place he had a majority was his own state, and the 2nd place was NV with 40.5%. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_De...
We can see the vote totals. As of Super Tuesday, the only place he had a majority was his own state, and the 2nd place was NV with 40.5%. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_De...
No, because the Democratic coalition at the time included a number of quite conservative "blue dog" democrats who were never going for anything remotely like M4A. (There are other ways to do UHC.)
To move the Overton window you'd need to elect strong left candidates from outside big blue cities.
To move the Overton window you'd need to elect strong left candidates from outside big blue cities.
December 4, 2025 at 6:18 PM
No, because the Democratic coalition at the time included a number of quite conservative "blue dog" democrats who were never going for anything remotely like M4A. (There are other ways to do UHC.)
To move the Overton window you'd need to elect strong left candidates from outside big blue cities.
To move the Overton window you'd need to elect strong left candidates from outside big blue cities.
What you're saying is that Sanders had the biggest block of supporters -- which is likely true.
However, he had support from less than 50% of the democratic primary voters -- and we know this because we can look at the overall counts by the ends of the primaries.
That's why we hold primaries.
However, he had support from less than 50% of the democratic primary voters -- and we know this because we can look at the overall counts by the ends of the primaries.
That's why we hold primaries.
December 4, 2025 at 6:14 PM
What you're saying is that Sanders had the biggest block of supporters -- which is likely true.
However, he had support from less than 50% of the democratic primary voters -- and we know this because we can look at the overall counts by the ends of the primaries.
That's why we hold primaries.
However, he had support from less than 50% of the democratic primary voters -- and we know this because we can look at the overall counts by the ends of the primaries.
That's why we hold primaries.
IMO? A public option for Medicare, either immediately or with gradually decreasing age caps. I was pissed that Lieberman & co stripped that.
My experience with health care in Japan has been good, but there are too many differences to make it easy to replicate. (It is a multi-payer system.)
My experience with health care in Japan has been good, but there are too many differences to make it easy to replicate. (It is a multi-payer system.)
December 4, 2025 at 6:08 PM
IMO? A public option for Medicare, either immediately or with gradually decreasing age caps. I was pissed that Lieberman & co stripped that.
My experience with health care in Japan has been good, but there are too many differences to make it easy to replicate. (It is a multi-payer system.)
My experience with health care in Japan has been good, but there are too many differences to make it easy to replicate. (It is a multi-payer system.)
?? This is apples and potatoes. Sure, Sanders has enthusiastic supporters ... just clearly less than 50% of the Democratic primary voters.
And when I read threads like this, I remain convinced that I was correct not to vote for him in primaries. IMO he'd have been a worse candidate. 🤷♀️
And when I read threads like this, I remain convinced that I was correct not to vote for him in primaries. IMO he'd have been a worse candidate. 🤷♀️
December 4, 2025 at 6:04 PM
?? This is apples and potatoes. Sure, Sanders has enthusiastic supporters ... just clearly less than 50% of the Democratic primary voters.
And when I read threads like this, I remain convinced that I was correct not to vote for him in primaries. IMO he'd have been a worse candidate. 🤷♀️
And when I read threads like this, I remain convinced that I was correct not to vote for him in primaries. IMO he'd have been a worse candidate. 🤷♀️
I dunno, I got kind of sick of being called a shitlib who wants people to die because I think that M4A would fail and there are better ways to do UHC.
December 4, 2025 at 5:55 PM
I dunno, I got kind of sick of being called a shitlib who wants people to die because I think that M4A would fail and there are better ways to do UHC.
Who could be proud given that we Americans elected Trump twice? (I campaigned against him, but that's not absolution.)
Sander's problem isn't the establishment, it's that he's a bad candidate who'd make a worse POTUS. (That's my opinion, apparently shared by many other Democratic primary voters.)
Sander's problem isn't the establishment, it's that he's a bad candidate who'd make a worse POTUS. (That's my opinion, apparently shared by many other Democratic primary voters.)
December 4, 2025 at 5:48 PM
Who could be proud given that we Americans elected Trump twice? (I campaigned against him, but that's not absolution.)
Sander's problem isn't the establishment, it's that he's a bad candidate who'd make a worse POTUS. (That's my opinion, apparently shared by many other Democratic primary voters.)
Sander's problem isn't the establishment, it's that he's a bad candidate who'd make a worse POTUS. (That's my opinion, apparently shared by many other Democratic primary voters.)
Nowhere in this thread did anyone indicate that having primary opponents was bad.
We said that having Bernie Sanders was bad because of how he campaigns.
HTH
We said that having Bernie Sanders was bad because of how he campaigns.
HTH
December 4, 2025 at 5:52 AM
Nowhere in this thread did anyone indicate that having primary opponents was bad.
We said that having Bernie Sanders was bad because of how he campaigns.
HTH
We said that having Bernie Sanders was bad because of how he campaigns.
HTH
You are responding to an argument other than the one I made. 🤷♀️
December 4, 2025 at 5:46 AM
You are responding to an argument other than the one I made. 🤷♀️
Bernie Sanders didn't win the Democratic primary. Most of the country sees him to the left of Democratic party in general leaving me skeptical of his chances in the general.
But regardless, he didn't win even a majority of Democratic primary voters -- voters like me.
But regardless, he didn't win even a majority of Democratic primary voters -- voters like me.
December 4, 2025 at 4:55 AM
Bernie Sanders didn't win the Democratic primary. Most of the country sees him to the left of Democratic party in general leaving me skeptical of his chances in the general.
But regardless, he didn't win even a majority of Democratic primary voters -- voters like me.
But regardless, he didn't win even a majority of Democratic primary voters -- voters like me.
Having fewer people on the left feel encouraged to wax poetic about how much they hated here would have helped, though.
Most voters are barely paying attention; they'll pick up pieces but not all. So if you say your party's candidate is the lesser evil, some people will only hear the last word.
Most voters are barely paying attention; they'll pick up pieces but not all. So if you say your party's candidate is the lesser evil, some people will only hear the last word.
December 4, 2025 at 3:43 AM
Having fewer people on the left feel encouraged to wax poetic about how much they hated here would have helped, though.
Most voters are barely paying attention; they'll pick up pieces but not all. So if you say your party's candidate is the lesser evil, some people will only hear the last word.
Most voters are barely paying attention; they'll pick up pieces but not all. So if you say your party's candidate is the lesser evil, some people will only hear the last word.
Without Bernie Sanders, Trump would have lost in 2016.
Disagreement about policy is good; but his and his supporters' attacks equally focused on HRC's character, and his decision to campaign like that affected the general election as well.
So -- yeah, he plowed the path.
Disagreement about policy is good; but his and his supporters' attacks equally focused on HRC's character, and his decision to campaign like that affected the general election as well.
So -- yeah, he plowed the path.
December 4, 2025 at 3:41 AM
Without Bernie Sanders, Trump would have lost in 2016.
Disagreement about policy is good; but his and his supporters' attacks equally focused on HRC's character, and his decision to campaign like that affected the general election as well.
So -- yeah, he plowed the path.
Disagreement about policy is good; but his and his supporters' attacks equally focused on HRC's character, and his decision to campaign like that affected the general election as well.
So -- yeah, he plowed the path.
"If a candidate can’t openly commit to it why the hell would we vote for them?" -- do you even hear yourself?
You're voting as part of a democracy, to influence government by choosing representatives. Given a choice (among candidates who can win), you choose the one closest to your preferences.
You're voting as part of a democracy, to influence government by choosing representatives. Given a choice (among candidates who can win), you choose the one closest to your preferences.
November 29, 2025 at 6:11 PM
"If a candidate can’t openly commit to it why the hell would we vote for them?" -- do you even hear yourself?
You're voting as part of a democracy, to influence government by choosing representatives. Given a choice (among candidates who can win), you choose the one closest to your preferences.
You're voting as part of a democracy, to influence government by choosing representatives. Given a choice (among candidates who can win), you choose the one closest to your preferences.
You can say that it wasn't enough without making false equivalences. There was some pressure, unlike with Trump.
www.cnbc.com/2024/01/28/b...
www.cnbc.com/2024/01/28/b...
Biden administration discussing slowing some weaponry deliveries to Israel to pressure Netanyahu
U.S. is considering pausing or slowing some arms shipments to Israel to convince the government to heed U.S. calls to scale back its military assault in Gaza.
www.cnbc.com
November 12, 2025 at 7:42 AM
You can say that it wasn't enough without making false equivalences. There was some pressure, unlike with Trump.
www.cnbc.com/2024/01/28/b...
www.cnbc.com/2024/01/28/b...
I was paying attention; Biden pushed for humanitarian aid. You could say that he only gave lip service, and conditions were indeed dire -- but the actual declaration of famine was in 2025, after months with almost all aid blocked and no pressure from Trump.
That's why Netanyahu wanted Trump to win.
That's why Netanyahu wanted Trump to win.
November 12, 2025 at 7:33 AM
I was paying attention; Biden pushed for humanitarian aid. You could say that he only gave lip service, and conditions were indeed dire -- but the actual declaration of famine was in 2025, after months with almost all aid blocked and no pressure from Trump.
That's why Netanyahu wanted Trump to win.
That's why Netanyahu wanted Trump to win.
Disloyalty? We don't owe loyalty to politicians.
But we do owe it to ourselves and to others who will be harmed to work towards and vote for the best -- or least bad -- option.
You can be pissed about the world as it is without telling lies about the consequences of your actions.
But we do owe it to ourselves and to others who will be harmed to work towards and vote for the best -- or least bad -- option.
You can be pissed about the world as it is without telling lies about the consequences of your actions.
November 12, 2025 at 5:26 AM
Disloyalty? We don't owe loyalty to politicians.
But we do owe it to ourselves and to others who will be harmed to work towards and vote for the best -- or least bad -- option.
You can be pissed about the world as it is without telling lies about the consequences of your actions.
But we do owe it to ourselves and to others who will be harmed to work towards and vote for the best -- or least bad -- option.
You can be pissed about the world as it is without telling lies about the consequences of your actions.
As a concrete example of how this made the harm to Palestinians worse -- Trump was fine when Gaza starved for months this past spring. (Biden and Harris both pushed to reduce this kind of harm, i.e. pushing Israel to admit humanitarian aid.)
There's a reason Netanyahu wanted Trump to win.
There's a reason Netanyahu wanted Trump to win.
November 12, 2025 at 4:39 AM
As a concrete example of how this made the harm to Palestinians worse -- Trump was fine when Gaza starved for months this past spring. (Biden and Harris both pushed to reduce this kind of harm, i.e. pushing Israel to admit humanitarian aid.)
There's a reason Netanyahu wanted Trump to win.
There's a reason Netanyahu wanted Trump to win.
Electing Kamala Harris would have reduced the harm to Palestinians when compared with Trump's explicit support for ethnic cleansing. It also would have avoided the rest of the project 2025 goals (e.g. defunding USAID).
The question is always which path is better -- or at least less bad.
The question is always which path is better -- or at least less bad.
November 12, 2025 at 4:36 AM
Electing Kamala Harris would have reduced the harm to Palestinians when compared with Trump's explicit support for ethnic cleansing. It also would have avoided the rest of the project 2025 goals (e.g. defunding USAID).
The question is always which path is better -- or at least less bad.
The question is always which path is better -- or at least less bad.
It's a shame that Americans couldn't get our heads out of our asses, actually. Voters are to blame for our politicians because we elected them -- including by inaction.
Your deflection sounds like knowledge of your own culpability, IMO.
Your deflection sounds like knowledge of your own culpability, IMO.
November 12, 2025 at 2:24 AM
It's a shame that Americans couldn't get our heads out of our asses, actually. Voters are to blame for our politicians because we elected them -- including by inaction.
Your deflection sounds like knowledge of your own culpability, IMO.
Your deflection sounds like knowledge of your own culpability, IMO.
Yes, I blame you for choosing harm rather than harm reduction.
November 12, 2025 at 2:22 AM
Yes, I blame you for choosing harm rather than harm reduction.