Jesse
@mvhv.bsky.social
I like computers, trains, birds and houseplants. I have hard evidence that Scott "Scotty" Cam is the infamous West-Sydney Troughman.
No malice, but if you blocked me it would probably stop your followers from getting back in my notifs 🫡
January 10, 2025 at 9:39 AM
No malice, but if you blocked me it would probably stop your followers from getting back in my notifs 🫡
I know you're going to say "well that's different." And, yes I know what the problem with malicious degendering is.
It's just weird to impart malice onto NB pronouns by default when it's usually, at worst, a misguided attempt at inclusivity.
It's just weird to impart malice onto NB pronouns by default when it's usually, at worst, a misguided attempt at inclusivity.
January 10, 2025 at 9:36 AM
I know you're going to say "well that's different." And, yes I know what the problem with malicious degendering is.
It's just weird to impart malice onto NB pronouns by default when it's usually, at worst, a misguided attempt at inclusivity.
It's just weird to impart malice onto NB pronouns by default when it's usually, at worst, a misguided attempt at inclusivity.
This is stupid. You've never spoken about a cis person where their gender was not immediately, obviously apparent?
"There's someone at the door for you."
"What do they want?"
It's a trivial example, but the idea that they/them can't ever be neutral is bizarrely insular and prescriptivist.
"There's someone at the door for you."
"What do they want?"
It's a trivial example, but the idea that they/them can't ever be neutral is bizarrely insular and prescriptivist.
January 10, 2025 at 9:30 AM
This is stupid. You've never spoken about a cis person where their gender was not immediately, obviously apparent?
"There's someone at the door for you."
"What do they want?"
It's a trivial example, but the idea that they/them can't ever be neutral is bizarrely insular and prescriptivist.
"There's someone at the door for you."
"What do they want?"
It's a trivial example, but the idea that they/them can't ever be neutral is bizarrely insular and prescriptivist.
Unless I misread this entirely, this doesn't sound like a situation where asking is actually an option? Rose is talking about people who saw her on TV, not people she knows.
I agree people should be okay with being corrected, but *assuming* they are, I don't think they/them is a bad default.
I agree people should be okay with being corrected, but *assuming* they are, I don't think they/them is a bad default.
January 10, 2025 at 9:08 AM
Unless I misread this entirely, this doesn't sound like a situation where asking is actually an option? Rose is talking about people who saw her on TV, not people she knows.
I agree people should be okay with being corrected, but *assuming* they are, I don't think they/them is a bad default.
I agree people should be okay with being corrected, but *assuming* they are, I don't think they/them is a bad default.
Or like podcasters, internet personalities, etc., people I am familiar with the outline but am not really engaged with. There are a few people I can think of right now that I have probably listened to like 100 hours of podcasts but could not tell you which pronouns they use.
January 7, 2025 at 7:19 PM
Or like podcasters, internet personalities, etc., people I am familiar with the outline but am not really engaged with. There are a few people I can think of right now that I have probably listened to like 100 hours of podcasts but could not tell you which pronouns they use.
If I know them primarily via online spaces, then yes actually.
January 7, 2025 at 7:15 PM
If I know them primarily via online spaces, then yes actually.
In case it wasn't clear, my initial post wasn't really me saying "I am constantly misgendering trans women" but that your average person has a very poorly developed grasp of gender and I think the mindset of "I think this person might not be cis, I shouldn't assume their gender" is okay to encourage
January 7, 2025 at 7:13 PM
In case it wasn't clear, my initial post wasn't really me saying "I am constantly misgendering trans women" but that your average person has a very poorly developed grasp of gender and I think the mindset of "I think this person might not be cis, I shouldn't assume their gender" is okay to encourage
I don't know where you got that idea I am making that mistake towards trans women in particular. I am more likely to accidentally misgender non-binary or genderfluid people, and I recognise that's usually because of built-in assumptions about gender presentation. That doesn't really apply here.
January 7, 2025 at 7:03 PM
I don't know where you got that idea I am making that mistake towards trans women in particular. I am more likely to accidentally misgender non-binary or genderfluid people, and I recognise that's usually because of built-in assumptions about gender presentation. That doesn't really apply here.
Please stop trying to explain this to me. I know what the issue with degendering is.
If this really was about a real and genuinely malicious event, then I'm sorry about that. Otherwise, I stand by everything I've said and do think the trend towards NB language is a broadly positive tendency.
If this really was about a real and genuinely malicious event, then I'm sorry about that. Otherwise, I stand by everything I've said and do think the trend towards NB language is a broadly positive tendency.
January 7, 2025 at 6:52 PM
Please stop trying to explain this to me. I know what the issue with degendering is.
If this really was about a real and genuinely malicious event, then I'm sorry about that. Otherwise, I stand by everything I've said and do think the trend towards NB language is a broadly positive tendency.
If this really was about a real and genuinely malicious event, then I'm sorry about that. Otherwise, I stand by everything I've said and do think the trend towards NB language is a broadly positive tendency.
I don't think discrimination is the right term here, but yes sometimes I make mistakes. I apologise and I try to do better. I hope my efforts are taken in good faith. I think that's a healthy way to live.
January 7, 2025 at 6:15 PM
I don't think discrimination is the right term here, but yes sometimes I make mistakes. I apologise and I try to do better. I hope my efforts are taken in good faith. I think that's a healthy way to live.
No, I do not know. But, honestly, because this started with "I was on TV" I read it as an incredibly self-centred assumption that people should know her identity as well as they would know a friend's.
I do not know the people on the TV, it's easy to forget the nuances of their lives.
I do not know the people on the TV, it's easy to forget the nuances of their lives.
January 7, 2025 at 6:08 PM
No, I do not know. But, honestly, because this started with "I was on TV" I read it as an incredibly self-centred assumption that people should know her identity as well as they would know a friend's.
I do not know the people on the TV, it's easy to forget the nuances of their lives.
I do not know the people on the TV, it's easy to forget the nuances of their lives.
All good, sorry about being snappy. I've been getting dogpilled for that shit and it's a real bummer having everyone assume I'm a chud instead of just a dipshit with a genuine memory disorder lol.
January 7, 2025 at 5:55 PM
All good, sorry about being snappy. I've been getting dogpilled for that shit and it's a real bummer having everyone assume I'm a chud instead of just a dipshit with a genuine memory disorder lol.
If it was *actually* in good faith, I think the use of they/them is a positive tendency we should encourage in normies.
People are fucking idiots about gender and the basic thought pattern of "oh I think this person is not cis, so I should try not to assume their gender" is practically saintly.
People are fucking idiots about gender and the basic thought pattern of "oh I think this person is not cis, so I should try not to assume their gender" is practically saintly.
January 7, 2025 at 5:48 PM
If it was *actually* in good faith, I think the use of they/them is a positive tendency we should encourage in normies.
People are fucking idiots about gender and the basic thought pattern of "oh I think this person is not cis, so I should try not to assume their gender" is practically saintly.
People are fucking idiots about gender and the basic thought pattern of "oh I think this person is not cis, so I should try not to assume their gender" is practically saintly.
Don't lump that shit on me. I respect everyone's right to define their gender identity as they see fit, and I always make an attempt to use a person's chosen pronouns. But I also think "they/them" should *usually* be interpreted as a good faith attempt at inclusivity (unless shown otherwise).
January 7, 2025 at 5:28 PM
Don't lump that shit on me. I respect everyone's right to define their gender identity as they see fit, and I always make an attempt to use a person's chosen pronouns. But I also think "they/them" should *usually* be interpreted as a good faith attempt at inclusivity (unless shown otherwise).
No I didn't think it was a joke, but it's unclear if it's a specific person/group who is acting maliciously or just a vague collection of genuinely ignorant folks. I was assuming the latter considering it's TV.
January 7, 2025 at 5:16 PM
No I didn't think it was a joke, but it's unclear if it's a specific person/group who is acting maliciously or just a vague collection of genuinely ignorant folks. I was assuming the latter considering it's TV.
Hang on, are you saying this thread is literally about one specific person who is/was obviously acting in bad faith? If so, whoops. I misunderstood it as being a blanket statement about normies using they/them as inclusive terminology.
January 7, 2025 at 5:06 PM
Hang on, are you saying this thread is literally about one specific person who is/was obviously acting in bad faith? If so, whoops. I misunderstood it as being a blanket statement about normies using they/them as inclusive terminology.
Of course not, why would I do that? I try to respect the chosen pronouns of everyone. But I do not always know them, and honestly sometimes I *think* I know them but I get them wrong.
January 7, 2025 at 5:01 PM
Of course not, why would I do that? I try to respect the chosen pronouns of everyone. But I do not always know them, and honestly sometimes I *think* I know them but I get them wrong.
I would think you would agree that a person's visual presentation doesn't necessarily tell you their chosen gender identity. I know femme presenting he/theys, masc presenting she/hers. Looking at a person you can make assumptions about their identity, but you don't know the answer.
January 7, 2025 at 4:55 PM
I would think you would agree that a person's visual presentation doesn't necessarily tell you their chosen gender identity. I know femme presenting he/theys, masc presenting she/hers. Looking at a person you can make assumptions about their identity, but you don't know the answer.
Obviously it's not fuckin' ISO standardised or whatever, but from my experience (including local and online queer communities) it's *a* very common and neutral phrasing.
January 7, 2025 at 4:49 PM
Obviously it's not fuckin' ISO standardised or whatever, but from my experience (including local and online queer communities) it's *a* very common and neutral phrasing.
What do you think semantic means?
January 7, 2025 at 4:43 PM
What do you think semantic means?
Look, sorry. I *genuinely* was trying to engage in good faith about memory and genderqueer identity here. I think we were talking past each other a bit. I get trans women experience a whole lot of horrible bullshit, and I think your identity as a woman (and your pronouns) are valid and important.
January 7, 2025 at 4:38 PM
Look, sorry. I *genuinely* was trying to engage in good faith about memory and genderqueer identity here. I think we were talking past each other a bit. I get trans women experience a whole lot of horrible bullshit, and I think your identity as a woman (and your pronouns) are valid and important.
No I am not, but yes I do understand that TERFs frequently try to use gender neutral language to delegitimise trans women's identities. But I still think you should approach it as a good faith attempt at inclusion unless there's actual evidence of malice. TERFs are usually pretty obviously nasty.
January 7, 2025 at 4:22 PM
No I am not, but yes I do understand that TERFs frequently try to use gender neutral language to delegitimise trans women's identities. But I still think you should approach it as a good faith attempt at inclusion unless there's actual evidence of malice. TERFs are usually pretty obviously nasty.
I think it's normal to make mistakes and if I misgender someone, I apologise and make an effort to do better.
I don't interact with the people on the TV.
I don't interact with the people on the TV.
January 7, 2025 at 4:13 PM
I think it's normal to make mistakes and if I misgender someone, I apologise and make an effort to do better.
I don't interact with the people on the TV.
I don't interact with the people on the TV.
I think this is unnecessary semantic hair-splitting about the word "preferred", but yes I respect pronouns as an important part of a person's identity.
January 7, 2025 at 4:03 PM
I think this is unnecessary semantic hair-splitting about the word "preferred", but yes I respect pronouns as an important part of a person's identity.