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Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 9h

@rachelschine.bsky.social Sorry, I just realized that my long back-and-forth w/Matthew Kuiper was downthread from your post, rather than downthread from my reply directly to his post. I hope you muted it rather than getting all those notifications! Sorry to spam your notifications.

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Reposted by Thomas A. Carlson

Rana Mikati @rana-mikati.bsky.social · 12h

Beirut folks, come if you can

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Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 10h

For the other places you mention, I have no information. But in this country, I've seen a lot of wish-casting by people who find themselves misaligned with their churches. American evangelicalism has changed. A deceased centenarian is not the most convincing poster-child for a viable alternative.

Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 10h

It was 95% of self-identified wh.Am. evangelicals who attend church weekly or more regardless of politics (but self-selection happened earlier). I have no numbers for elsewhere, but anecdotal reports that this has taken over evangelicalism in Canada, UK, Australia, & growing in S. Korea & Ethiopia.

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Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 12h

Based on evidence, I reluctantly came to the conclusion that Xp nationalism is not "part of the movement" but almost the totality, especially when one includes the many who empower it by continued participation (regardless of private beliefs) and refuse to speak out against "fellow-evangelicals."

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Dr. Nick Posegay @nposegay.bsky.social · 15h

Fantastic practical joke for medieval scribes.
(from §22 of this book payhip.com/b/BoYj4 by @majnouna.com)

"To render the scribe unable to write from the inkwell: Squeeze the juice of a tamarind and transfer it to the inkwell. No scribe will manage to write from it."

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Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 12h

German original:
www.digitale-sammlungen.de/de/view/bsb1...
Translation:
archive.org/details/Hamm...

https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/de/view/bsb10433501?page=36,37

<!DOCTYPE html> <html lang="de" class="text-xl antialiased"> <head> <meta charset="UTF-8"> <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0"> <title>'die geschichte...

www.digitale-sammlungen.de

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Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 12h

An earlier German usage: Joseph von Hammer[-Purgstall], Die Geschichte der Assassinen aus morgenländischen Quellen (1818), p. 24 (= Wood trans., 16):
Die Sunni’s, deren Lehre *bei uns* als die rechtgläubige gilt…
The Soonnites [sic], whose doctrine is considered among us the orthodox one…
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A page of German prose, containing the quotation in the post.

A page of German prose in English translation,containing the quotation in the post.

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Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 12h

I got curious! I just found an earlier one which I will post at the top level.

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Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 13h

Link to source:
www.google.com/books/editio...

(I also saw something which Google Books erroneously labeled 1834, reviewing a 1903 book.)

But is this the source of all "orthodox Islam" language? I suspect the use of "Islamic sects" would inspire the analogy w/Christian "orthodoxy" independently.

The Dublin Review

www.google.com

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Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 13h

After digging, the earliest instance I can find of "orthodox Islam" is an 1839 review in The Dublin Review of Ignaz von Döllinger, Mohammeds Religion nach ihrer inneren Entwicklung und ihrem Einfluß auf das Leben der Völker (1838). Von Döllinger himself seems not to use the term in his screed. +

A long paragraph in English, translated from a German book of polemic masquerading as scholarship, which contend that Islam has more heresy and sectarianism than Christianity.

A short paragraph from a book review, which compares the "invincible might" of "the Christian Church" [sic] to oppose heresy with the lack of any comparable resources in "orthodox Islam" [sic].

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Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 13h

As a quick & dirty handwave, Google Ngrams suggest "orthodox Islam" was invented in the 1860s, but peaked after 9/11 (when windbags read out-of-copyright books?) before declining since.

books.google.com/ngrams/graph...

Google Books Ngram Viewer

Google Ngrams: orthodox Islam, Islamic orthodoxy, Muslim orthodoxy, 1800-2022

books.google.com

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Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 14h

In addition to marginalizing Shii ideals (some of which spread among Sunnis, like a Sunni poem in praise of the Twelve Imams c. 1500 CE!), it also ascribes greater cultural power to ulama/eggheads than they in fact possessed.

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Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 14h

Of course it's patterned on medieval Christian notions of orthodoxy vs. heresy, but I presume it's a 19th C orientalist idea, because (1) Goldziher already used it iirc, and (2) medieval Latin missionaries would not use "orthodox" for anything in Islam. But yes, it's a real problem on many levels.

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Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 14h

Is there room to add me to the list? I'm not modern, but very medieval.

Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 14h

Btw I hate that those facts are real, fwiw.

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Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 14h

Ofc anti-DJT evangelicals exist, but: among w.Am. evang.s who attended church weekly, >95% supported DJT in 2020. More w.Am. evang.s believe DJT won 2020 than that Jesus is God. DJT support is growing among non-w.Am. evangelicals worldwide. *Descriptively*, that is now core evangelical theology.

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Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 23h

I believe the large majority of the Black denominations in America avoid calling themselves "evangelical," preferring "born again" instead. White American evangelicals claim Black American Christians as "with us" when it suits them, and exclude Black American Christians when it suits them.

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Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 23h

As someone who formerly defended the difference and now feel that I cannot, I think those labels have become coterminous to within a small margin of error. Already in 2016 I saw studies indicating that most Black "Bible-believing" Christians prefer the label "born again" over "evangelical."

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Jeremy Bassis @bassisjeremy.bsky.social · 1d

Universities are messy, inefficient and have never been a bastion of courage. But let's be honest about what is going on here because it has nothing to do with "fixing" higher-ed. This is about controlling who gets into elite universities and restricting the knowledge we produce. 12/

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Sonja Drimmer @sonjadrimmer.bsky.social · 1d

LLM extruded essays are like being cornered by the most boring person at a party while they monotone monologue small talk at you, convinced that they’re pronouncing something profound.

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Sonja Drimmer @sonjadrimmer.bsky.social · 1d

The palpable relief of reading a syntactically awkward student paper nevertheless brimming with ideas they’re trying on after having to consume the stale cardboard generalities of a Chat GPT essay.

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Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 2d

Yes, I had read the entire thread, and I thought you were asking whether there was not an obvious parallel for Christians, and I pointed to one way that what seems to me the most natural Christian parallel was historically attenuated by an interfering concept. Apologies if I misunderstood!

Thomas A. Carlson @medievalmiddleeast.bsky.social · 2d

The concept of "all Christians everywhere" persisted, but it was severely constrained by the concept of heresy leading to damnation, and the former concept was dormant for most of Christian history. Foreign missionaries "counted" but the "bad" Christians they tried to convert usually did not.

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Arash Zeini @arashzeini.com · 2d

I suppose the Persian Rivayat, the exchanges between Parsis in India and the Zoroastrians of Iran that began in the 15th century, are another example of such notions of belonging, even if gaps exist in between. What started back then still continues today, shaping much of the identity discourse.

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